honey journal
a journal gathered from e-mails, voicemails, phone calls, conversations, posts, etc... mainly focused on the recording of the new record...

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august 19, 2005 - "what if..."

the choir plays a show at my (doug's) church... nice to see old friends that you haven't scene in a while... talk about life, music, family.... suddenly after almost everyone has gone home - an impromptu production meeting breaks out for the honey record.... yes, it is still alive... andy has begun working on the drums and has some interesting production ideas for the record... what if we... more to come on that... the ideas are good ones (what would expect, coming from andy) and time to get the "band" together to discuss it... the good news is, bill is coming to l.a. to shoot a commercial next week... we'll see...

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january 10, 2005 - "yes... 2005..."

sitting at the yorba linda studios of northern records listening to andy create demos for a record he is working on... a cool drum loop, add a midi bass loop, now the cool guitar riff.... wishing i was working on my record... bill's coming out to l.a. in a couple weeks for some post production work on a commercial, maybe we can rekindle the barely lit flame of this record... maybe not...

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july 12, 2004 - "what the hell have you been up to..."

first update in four months... roger had his first kid - a boy, doug had his second kid - a girl, to go with his 2 year old boy... bill has had several kids, too many to count and in many states and possibly three countries....

anyway.... we're back on... some drum stuff & bass stuff is happening in orange county california at doug's home studio... plans are in the works for an appearance at the northern records studios in oc by billywan to do some guitars....

more to come...

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march 1, 2004 - "that track was money..."

this weekend marked the beginning of phase 2 of the record. with the generous loaning of equipment from our friends brent and aaron, we started tracking some guitars at roger's house. how did it go? well, while listening to one of the tracks on playback, our trusty engineer who we'll call "r. moss"...no, wait. that's too obvious...let's just call him "roger m." anyways, while listeing to one of the tracks on playback roger m. actually fell asleep. this wasn't 2 in the morning. this wasn't the 100th take. it was about 7 pm.

of course, after he woke up he said, "that track was money," so maybe everything will be fine.

in other news, bill continued his oscar pool dominance by getting 16 out of 21 categories correct and taking home $40.

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february 1, 2004 - "i can't believe you're actually going to post that stuf..."

check out some polaroids from the sessions in chicago.

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january 19, 2004 - "i have to change my pants..."

happy mlk day to you all.

it's monday morning, and the drums are done. got the three tracks we needed yesterday, then reached into the bag o' demos and recorded another one on the spot. the new song is currently titled 'see me through.'

our pace slowed considerably from the blistering four songs in four hours pace, as we spent the better part of 10 hours getting these songs done. but i think they turned out well. we also managed to find time for more taco bell, watching football and hanging out with our good friend aaron. dedicated listeners may remember him as "the one cute guy in the picture" from the lost on you era. he played bass for us on a couple tours, and can now be found at nationaljetset.com, where he plays significantly louder music which you may enjoy.

guitars are now being plotted, and need to happen in the next two months. shouldn't be too difficult, but everything always is anyway.

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january 18, 2004 - "wait, i didn't play on that song..."

today was the first day of tracking, which meant the first day of technical difficulties. things went relatively smooth, other than a phantom buzz that required a trip to the nearest radio shack. and when i say nearest, i mean 30 minutes away. the suburbs suck.

anyway, the other lesson we learned today, young drummers, is this: if you spend 3 hours trying to get a good drum sound, and it still sounds like crap, perhaps you should consider changing out that drum head you've had for two years. i know we will next time. with the new head in place, and our schedule shot to hell, roger cruised through four songs, and they all sound great. other than that, we ate a lot of chips, used brent's shop vac, and discovered that 1/2 of the band wives think bill is either shallow, superficial or both. ah, good times.

on another note, in an act of blatant aggression the lassie boys have updated their site with polaroid pictures, knowing full well that we had been taking polaroid pictures of our rehearsal time (at least they knew in my head). so tonite we challenge them to a drinking contest. there's more of them than us, so we'll go by average beer intake per person. i think we can take them, because that shredder guy's kind of little, plus they have wayne.

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january 17, 2004 - pre-production finished...

saturday morning, and the computer guys are doing computer stuff (i.e. doug and roger). thus, i am writing the update.

after a slow start and some problems with train schedules, the band re-united in roger's minivan. turns out doug's blood has thinned like a wee california lassie's. reminds me of when eric came out for pre-pro on 'lost on you' and wore his jacket inside the house.

pre-production went really well last nite. all of the songs held up to their first full band performance. 'not fade away' had a little speed bump with the tempo, but that could have been due to low blood sugar. after breaking for faso's deep dish pizza, the finest in the south suburbs, we were immediately happy with the new tempo.

time to go investigate a mystery fan noise.if i were in the lassie foundation, this update would be funnier. but i'm not.

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january 15, 2004 - jet plane tomorrow...

so friday morning doug gets on a plane for chicago... chicago in january - good timing.... what's is he packing in his suitcase tonight? mic pres, cables, effects units, guitar effects, strings, an inspirational piece of tile from the wall of the bathroom of abbey road studios, blank notepads, several cd-r's with various demos and things never to be heard by anyone other than doug, his laptop containing much of the same and a couple of movies.... that's what is currently on the list

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january 13, 2004 - as stated on the northern records forum by bwan...

"of all of the reviews i've ever read of any of our cd's, this is perhaps the most fitting:

"i just bought this cd in johannesburg, south africa last week. a Christian book store was selling it used for 20 rand ($3). i think it is ok, i am glad i didn't pay full price."

i'm sure doug would enjoy knowing you paid $3 for three.

we are actually starting production in earnest on friday for the next record tentatively titled (only in my mind) "it's not really failing if you never really try, or, how to live a small, frustrating life in the midwest." but maybe we'll just call it "this one is worth $4, american ."

this will either be the greatest honey record ever, or the most prolonged debacle in our brief history. i think the former, but i've always been a positive guy. everyone knows that about me."

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january 12, 2004 - the end is near...

so here's the plan for the weekend....

doug gets in friday around noon, and bill is showing up around 1 at roger's. head to the studio, probably have to unwind a bit, take care of some computer issues, get set up for a couple of hours. we don't waste any time getting drum sounds, and just start practicing stuff. hammer out arrangements, get tight etc. play all nite, have fun.

then saturday morning we can spend some time hitting drums with sticks until we like the sounds they make. then spend all day saturday recording and re-practicing. same goes for sunday. we'll probably get the most creative stuff done at nite, and spend the day's doing the hard work. so i'm sure we'll have to re-practice stuff everyday, but i think we should just have that first day to get tight (or at least less loose).

also, the proposal is to go with one drum sound the whole way. if we find a great drum sound we should just run with it. keep it simple.

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december 31, 2003 - post practice...

so we ran through all of the songs, came up with basic drum parts. plus structures for most of them. these structures are tentative, but here's where we were at.

cruiser: nothing new yet. assuming it will go I-V-C-T-V-C-C-T-Bridge-C (probably going to write the bridge when you get here, unless inspiration strikes.)

knife - nothing new. not sure it needs a bridge. just put a solo in, and maybe it will be ok.
come closer - tried a couple of things here. i said at one point it needed another verse, but we tried a structure that added a solo instead. I-V-C-T(drums in)-V-C-Solo(over verse)-C(with the drums out for the first two measures like roger's demo)-OUT(big strings)

not fade away - I-V-PC-C-V-PC-C-Solo(over chorus)-C(with broken down vocals) tried it with that extra PC, but it didn't feel necessary. roger felt that this one needed a bass line before he could do drums on it because of pushes and what not.

forget to breathe - we tried this one with a tom part on the drums. thought about no rhythm guitar, just a bass and drum thing that builds. electric guitar would still play the chorus riff, and some holes here and there, but wouldn't really strum. sounded pretty cool when we did it. we can very easily put regular drums behind this, though. I-V-C-V-C-C

wanted to know - this one is crazy, but i think we have a hold on it (lyrical reference intended). we would start with a little drum loop and the bass, then kick into the second half of the verse, with a one verse intro. then we also wrote a new bridge. the weird thing is everything in this song is in 6's, except the new bridge, which is 8. strange. I-V-C-T(with a broken down build)-V-C-B-C-C-loop out

time goes on - i just showed the new cleaned up version to rog. think it just needs a loop, not a whole kit. needs lyrics more than anything so it can have some structure.

second movement - just talked about trying to do some of it live.

tempos: lots of stuff sped up: cruiser, forget to breathe, and wanted to know sped up. not fade away got a little faster. not fade away is the hard one, because the music kind of wants to get faster, but i was trying to make sure roger kept it slow enough that the chorus lyric wasn't rushed. so that will take some thinking.

over all feels pretty good. still feel like we may have one song too many, depending on how fast roger can record.

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december 30, 2003 - let the jams begin...

bill and roger get together to work on some of the structures and rehearse....

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december 29, 2003 - ideas...

new arrangement for "not fade away"... "second coming" - record it live, similar to "first vibration" from the "lost on you" record... the chorus to "not fade away" makes it feel like it could be more dancey, up-beat... "time goes on" might be something with no drums, may not need to get that recorded in january...

and by the way, weren't bill & roger going to get together after christmas?

from bill... "no hook up yet. hot girl in town that wanted to hang out with me. my priorities are fucked up, but that's not news to anyone"...

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december 23, 2003 - merry christmas...

mp3s available - a christmas message from doug....

hey guys...

i put up 3 mp3s tonight with some melodies... as always, please don’t pay attention to my fake words that i mumble the melody to... and also, some of this is recorded quietly because beck was asleep as i did this tonight...

i put up “wanted to know”, “not fade away”, and “forget to breathe”... as those didn’t have anything so – now they have something... i had other versions of this stuff, but these are the ones i like and would like to pursue...

i have some ideas for vocals on the out or in small spots of second coming, but i want to just jam on those a little more...

merry christmas if i don’t talk to you guys, but i probably will – i ain’t got shit to do over the next several days, so i’m gonna work on some lyrics...

i’m interested in what you guys think of the melodies...

later.
-d

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december 22, 2003 - re: production...

production thoughts from bill....

i've been trying to think a lot about what sort of sounds and production styles are going to make this easier. and the two records i've been thinking about a lot are the new coldplay and the latest u2. more the coldplay though. it doesn't really have more than 2 real guitar tracks per song. a couple of songs have acoustic, but mostly just the ballads. specifically "in my place" has just the riff and a little guitar in the back. kind of like the power trio sound. i'd like to attempt to have that sort of thing happen. i talked to roger about this already, and i know it means a lot relies on drums and good guitar parts, so hopefully we'll be able to get there in the next couple of weeks.

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december 3, 2003 - with that in mind...

here is the current priority list....

closest to complete:
- knife
- come closer
- cruiser

needs melody:
- wanted to know
- not fade away
- forget to breathe
- time goes on (some melody)
- second movement (maybe)

needs structure/arrangement:
- time goes on
- second movement
- cruiser (some)

bill & roger start to make plans for a couple rehearsals between christmas & new years....

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december 2, 2003 - bill drops the hammer...

"and not to be a slave driver, but i think it's important that we have a lot done by the week after Christmas. no need for lyrics at all, but melodies would be good so we can live with them, and then try to write some bridges before you come out here. i think we need to be able to just go right into practicing, or as close to practicing as we can when you show up.

lyrics can definitely wait and be figured out later, but we need to make sure our structures are solid and our arrangements are right. so you can definitely fine tune and work over that week, but i'd like to say we had a few songs almost put to bed arrangement-wise by new years, and then have the opportunity to start hammering them out with roger so he can practice parts, etc. make sense? possible?

not trying to be rude, i know you guys are busy. i just want to remain realistic so we don't waste those four days. because i don't think any of us want to have to take more time off or be delayed for drums. "


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december 1, 2003 - blah, blah, blah...

some chorus lyrics for "not fade away"...

i didn't know
that once you were gone
i could ever be so lonely
even though you told me
your wrong
to wait for so long
did you even try to show me
blah blah blah blah blah blah...

(need a really good last line there....)

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november 24, 2003 - flights booked...

doug books flights for january 16th - 19th for a 3 and a half day session of post-production and drum tracking in chicago.... friends of honey have a basement studio that we will invade for the long weekend and hopefully come up with some good sounds....

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november 17, 2003 - smuggling hope...

roger finishes recording and producing a record called "smuggling hope" using all the mics & gear that we will use to record and produce the new honey record... incidentally he ships the tracks to doug to mix and master... hopefully the doc will mix & master the new honey record...

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november 15, 2003 - the russian winter...

the official list of 8 possible songs for the ep.... and what state they are in....

knife-
has: verse, chorus, some lyrics, lead guitar.
needs: more lyrics. maybe a bridge, or at least a solo. string part to be nailed down at some point.
other: i think the tempo is pretty close on this.
production: this one needs a guitar to be playing the riff for most of the way. although in general i'm feeling like getting the acoustic guitar off this record, i think it may need to stay on this one. i don't really have any drum comments, yet. i think it's probably pretty straight ahead. i see this one sounding kind of like older radiohead, but not as fucked up. it also has kind of a cool gothic feel that i like.

come closer-
has: verse, chorus, bridge/out, some lyrics, lead guitar.
needs: more lyrics, i think.i feel like it might need another verse, and it needs some bridge lyrics. plus i just want to revisit the lyrics in general and hear everyone's opinion.
other: i think the tempo is pretty close on this, also.
production: this one is a little tricky, because it needs piano as a main part, i think. and we can't really do that until last when we have frank or someone help us. i don't think the acoustic is gonna be used a whole lot. maybe it will come in later. i don't think the drums will start right away on this one. maybe in after half a verse or something. i did like the stop on the chorus that you did roger, but only once. can't do it again i don't think. i think it should be two verses before the chorus comes in. maybe we'll just put down a guide acoustic, and assume the piano will be added later.

cruiser-
has: verse, chorus, very few lyrics, lead guitar
needs: more lyrics. maybe a bridge, or at least a solo. string part to be nailed down at some point. this chorus vocal was a drunken bill invention, so we can revisit it if we don't like it. same with the chorus lyrics.
other: i think this one might be a bit slow.
production: should be relatively basic. acoustic guitar, electric, lead, bass, strings. this one has arrangement needs to decide if it's gonna get much longer than 3 minutes. i've been looking at cure arrangements lately and trying to figure out how they get their songs so long. a lot of it is long turnarounds and intros, so maybe we can do something like that. the overall sound should be similar to valentine. kind of an updated cure, but better guitars.

wanted to know-
has: verse, chorus.
needs: lyrics, bridge, melody.
other: this is a bit slow.
production: as roger knows, this song has a weird timing thing. completely unintentionally the b-section of the verse is only two measures long, when it feels like it should be four. so a full time through the verse ends up being six measures. it feels totally natural to me, and i don't want to change it. but just so we're aware, it makes it a bit tricky.
i could go two ways on this one. either a sort of sloppy, loud, oasis/jimmy eat world thing. or a mid-tempo, sort of rocker. kind of depends on the lyrics. i actually have some lyrics and a melody line, but i'm going to spare you for now and see what you have. maybe this could have a quieter verse thing where the lead guitar drops out, and just use the loud one as intro and turn. drums are probably rock, with some building stuff needing to happen to get from the chorus back to the verse. this one will need the most work in one room, unless doug comes up with an amazing structure and pieces it together.

time goes on-
has: kind of an a and a b. some lyrics. some melody.
needs: more lyrics. drastic structure work.
other: this is a hair slow. i picture the drums maybe having a double-time thing going on, so i don't think it needs to get too much faster.
production: this demo is really just a skeleton. i really like the guitar riff and the first half of the verse melody. i was originally thinking this would be a big studio production, with an acoustic playing the riff. but i played it on electric the other day, and think it can actually be a more classic honey song with some reverb and delay. i don't think this will ever get a true chorus or bridge. just a chorus built into the guitar part.

second movement-
has: one guitar part.
needs: structure. lead guitar stuff. maybe some vocals.
other: speed it up.
production: hopefully this one will click when we all get in a room and play it. i was talking to roger about maybe adding some vocals to this. just out vocals. kind of like we skip the whole song, and just start singing some sort of out-chorus thing once we've built it way up. a cool way to add structure to it, i think, so it's not just a slow builder.

not fade away -
has: verse, pre-chorus, chorus,chorus guitar part.
needs: lyrics, melody, perhaps a solo instead of a bridge.
other: a bit slow
production: pretty straight forward, i think. this is one of the songs where we have to decide if we keep the acoustic. an electric rhythm might give it a more rock feel. may not need a bridge, since it has that pre-chorus we can use as a bridge out of a solo into another chorus.

forget to breathe-
has: verse, chorus, chorus guitar.
needs: lyrics, melody, bridge (for sure, i think).
other: a bit slow. not too far off though, i don't think.
production: also pretty straight forward. kind of saw this one being a u2 song from "all that you can't leave behind." so, real big, over the top chorus is needed i think, to keep up with that guitar part. it feels a little marchy, and cool to me. i actually wouldn't mind getting the acoustic out of this one and having it be drums, bass and some lead guitar only. total u2 thing.

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november 11, 2003 - the songs...

the official song list begins...
1. knife
2. cruiser
3. i wanted to know
4. time goes on
5. lover, come closer
6. easy life
7. not fade away
8. morning after
9. lord see me through
10. forget to breathe
11. please
12. harboring
13. luca brasi
14. second movement
15. sinking slowly
16. don't hate me

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october 29, 2003 - the 4th honey record begins...

through various e-mail threads and mp3s and cds and phone calls, the next honey record begins to take shape... plans for an ep are underway...

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october 24, 2003 - bill has a dream...

bill has a dream, a very realistic dream - of honey in the studio...

"so i woke up all fired up, and took a fresh look at the songs we have. i narrowed it down, and am going to put them on a cd for roger, and one for you if you're interested. apparently roger said he had the same dream and was going to call me about it."

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september 6, 2003 - dinner among friends...

bill is in orange county shooting a commercial... out to dinner with doug & his wife sandi. sandi asks.... "so what's going on with honey?".... indeed, what is going on with honey.....

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march, 2003 - you're my hero...

bill calls doug's voicemail at 2 in the morning after listening to 'three' saying only "doug, i just listened to our record for the first time in a long time, and i don't care if no one likes us, you're my fucking hero. that's all."

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november, 2002 - september 4, 2003 - nothing new to say...

about a year passes with not much talk / interest in doing another honey record... occasional posts on the northern forum, occasional discussions with people at northern shows, etc... but no movement... jobs, distance, writers block, all get in the way...

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october 26, 2002 - the lost weekend

bill flies to orange county california for a weekend to begin working on a possible new honey record. doug & bill come up with about 8 - 10 ideas, of which 3 or 4 actually turn into songs... those songs sit on the shelf for the next several months as everyone is too busy, not interested, blah, blah, blah...